A place to feel safe asking other teens for answers.


    Helter Skelter

    Share
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:22 pm

    What is your view on Helter Skelter (The Manson murders) in 1969? Why was it done? And what effect did it have on Hollywood and the late 60s and early 70s?


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:04 pm

    WARNING: This article is not for the faint of heart. If you are NOT ok with seeing blood and things dealing with murder, please do NOT continue reading this article. I have warned you.

    Charles Manson and the whole "Helter Skelter" scenario are something I'm too familiar with. This is going to be a rant and I give you props if you can make it through the whole thing.


    Before 1969 (when the number of the family had escalated), Manson had spent almost half of his life between bars. If I remember correctly, I remember an interview of his where he stated that prison was like his home. Manson's childhood consisted of living with his alcoholic mother (who was 16 when he was born), living with his uncles, running away, stealing cars and going across state borders, living in boy's schools, etc. He was released from jail in 1967, during the "free love" era. During that time, he began living with other "hippies", particularly ones with broken childhoods, if you will. Manson, was an aspiring musician, who had worked with the Beach Boys on a few tracks. He even invited himself and his family to move in with Dennis Wilson, one of the Beach Boys. At one point, Wilson even moved out of the house leaving Manson there. While trying to impress Wilson with his music, Manson briefly met Terry Melcher, a big-time music producer who had a home in the Hollywood Hills, particularly Cielo Drive. Melcher said that he would TRY to schedule a meeting between him and Manson for a record deal. When Manson became furious, he traveled to Cielo Drive where Melcher had lived to confront him about the incident. Unknown to Manson, but Melcher had moved out with his girlfriend Candice Bergen a few months before. Living in the house was film director Roman Polanski and his wife, actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant with their first child. Polanski was out of town when Manson visited, and he was greeted by a photographer who was doing a photo shoot with Tate. While not knowing who these people were, Manson knew that they were "players in Hollywood." Furious about not meeting with Melcher about his music career, Manson sent Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian to the house that night. Kasabian had recently joined Manson's "family" who were living at a deserted film ranch in Southern California.




    Tate on August 8, 1969

    While Polanski was away in France filming, Tate was now 8 and a half months pregnant on August 8, 1969. At her house on Cielo Drive were Jay Sebring, "hair stylist to the stars". He had been her ex-fiance. Also at the house was Voytek Frykowski, a close friend of Polanski's, and his girlfriend, Abigail Folger, heiress to the Folger coffee fortune. Sebring, Folger, and Frykowski were at the house to keep Tate company while Polanski was away since she was expected to give birth in around two weeks. While Linda Kasabian stayed behind, the rest of the group (Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Tex Watson) proceeded to the house, after cutting the power line. It was around 12 am and Voytek was sleeping on the couch. Folger was in the guestroom reading. Tate and Sebring were in Tate's room, talking.
    The group broke into the house and brought the group of celebrities into the living room. Voytek Frykowski was shot twice, struck with a blunt object thirteen times, and stabbed fifty-one times. Abigail Folger was stabbed twenty-eight times. Jay Sebring was shot in the face once and stabbed seven times. Sharon Tate was the last to go. She was stabbed sixteen times. Atkins used Tate's blood to write "PIG" on the poolside door of the house.



    1969 News Coverage of the Murders


    The next night, Manson sent the group to another house, the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. Since Linda Kasabian had expressed remorse over the murders, Manson decided to not let her attend this outing. Susan Atkins also did not participate. Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houten went into the house and murdered the couple. The word "WAR" was written into Leno LaBianca's chest and he was also stabbed numerous times. Rosemary LaBianca was also stabbed numerous times and was strangled by a lamp chord. During this time, the police had NO IDEA who had done these terrifying acts. Manson moved his "family" to Death Valley, a desert west of Los Angeles. They inhabited another ranch in that area. After the ranch was raided by police, Atkins was arrested for a different crime (one I can not remember), but it was not even close to murder. I'm thinking it was robbery. Anyway, in jail, Atkins let it slip to a cellmate that she had participated in the murders. The cellmate told the authorities about what Atkins had told her. Manson was influenced by the music of the Beatles. He believed that through their songs, the Beatles were calling him to create a race war. Before the Tate/LaBianca murders, Manson had his follower Bobby Beausoliel murder Gary Hinman, a man who supposedly owed Manson money. In Hinman's blood, Beausoliel put a paw print on the wall, looking similar to the work of the Black Panthers. In Manson's eyes, this and the following murders would create his race war. He called this "Helter Skelter." The whole subject of Helter Skelter is really intricate and very hard to explain. If you'd like to learn more about this, I suggest reading a website that could explain it better. Well, that about sums up why it was done.

    Now on to the affect it had on the United States...

    This was 1969 and you can probably imagine the amount of peace signs that were going around. The '60s was the decade of love. This era was said to have died when the Tate/LaBianca murders were committed. Remember, the murders took place in the late summer of '69, but the 'family members' weren't convicted and sent to prison until 1972, I believe. To put it bluntly, this event scared the living shit out of America. Especially since the people who committed the crimes were in their early 20s. This was most likely when adults started using the phrase, "Geez. Kids today..." The media was covering everything about the murders. Any story they could find, they reported it whether it was true or false which made the murders a VERY hot topic. If you don't believe me, read the cover of this old article.


    Now, on the effect it had on Hollywood...

    The effect it had on Hollywood was probably a bit worse than on America. Sharon Tate was an actress, known for her role in her husbands film The Fearless Vampire Killers and Valley of the Dolls, for which she won a Golden Globe. Jay Sebring was well-known in Hollywood since he was a hair stylist, and had worked with Bruce Lee and Steve McQueen. It was reported that the family had also intended to kill well-known stars at the time including Elizabeth Taylor and McQueen himself. When McQueen had delivered Sebring's eulogy, it was reported that he had a gun in his pocket for protection. Actor Warren Beatty expressed his remorse for Tate last year during the 40th anniversary of the murders. Hollywood stars began locking their doors every night. They began buying guns for protection. It was truly a terrifying time in America.

    Leslie Van Houten was denied release from prison exactly two weeks ago. Susan Atkins died in prison in September due to brain cancer. Tex Watson, Charles Manson, and Patricia Krenwinkel are locked up. Since she did not participate in the murders, Linda Kasabian was not arrested and she testified against Manson along with Vincent Bugliosi, who later wrote the novel Helter Skelter, detailing the murders and trial. The murder trial has been called one of the most longest trials in history. During one of the meetings, Manson leaped at the judge and had to be restrained. I think it's safe to say that Manson will NEVER be released. As for the others, I don't know. After a decade of her daughter's murder, Doris Tate "organized a public campaign against what she considered shortcomings in the state's corrections system which led to amendments to the California criminal law in 1982, which allowed crime victims and their families to make victim impact statements during sentencing and at parole hearings." (courtesy of Wikipeda). As such, she wanted to (in her own words), "help transform Sharon's legacy from murder victim to a symbol of victims' rights." Since this has happened, I highly doubt that Van Houten, Watson, and Krenwinkel will be released from prison. They now express remorse for the murders, but at the time they didn't...at all. In fact, they carved swastika's in their foreheads, shaved their heads, and sang in the halls of the courthouse. So yeah, I highly doubt they'll be released.
    avatar
    TheLatterGoesDown.
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Female Posts : 356
    Join date : 2010-06-08
    Age : 22
    Location : Whoville.

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TheLatterGoesDown. on Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:51 pm

    Well first, Trav I read the whole thing. Razz

    And I find this whole topic very interesting, I've always been interested by Charles Manson and all of those killings.

    I'm thinking of mailing him, also..xD


    _________________________________________________
    Be right back.


    You can reach me at: Katie@teen2teenforums.com if you have any questions or problems. Smile I'll always listen.


    Nuns turn Ryanlol on.
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:04 pm

    Totally. He's a very interesting man. I've watched many of his interviews and everything he says just makes so much sense to me. Many people condemn him for being a criminal mastermind without really knowing how smart he really is. I'll edit this later with the interview I like if I can find it.


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:07 am

    Totally. He's a very interesting man. I've watched many of his interviews and everything he says just makes so much sense to me. Many people condemn him for being a criminal mastermind without really knowing how smart he really is. I'll edit this later with the interview I like if I can find it.

    Yes, he's very interesting. I've noticed that the things he says do make sense, to an extent. Yes he may be smart, but we shouldn't forget about the murders that he and/or his 'family' did. We know of at least eight. I condemn him for being a criminal mastermind because I've done A LOT of research on him and whole situation that escalated into what is known as the Tate/LaBianca murders. ^_^ I've seen two films, numerous documentaries, and read the book by Vincent Bugliosi on the whole "Helter Skelter" matter. Even though he was somewhat intellectual, he has done so many wrong things during his lifetime. I'm glad to say that he'll never be released.

    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:53 am

    TravM wrote:I'm glad to say that he'll never be released.

    He himself has said he's unsuitable to be released. The guy's been up for parole 11 times and is up again in two years. We know he'll never get out, but he still has a following that has been blamed for many murders. He's talked about them here:

    Charles Manson wrote:They keep tellin' me how crazy I am, but the guys they got me locked in seg with still believe I'm everything Sadie said I was. They are worse than those kids out there wanting to believe I'm some kind of God. I hear it so much, sometimes I believe it--believe it so strongly that I think the world should bow down to me and ask forgiveness. Not forgiveness for what they did to me, but forgiveness for what they do to themselves.


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:57 am

    In case you guys are wondering, "Sadie" is the nickname Manson gave to follower Susan Atkins. Sadie Mae Glutz was the name, to be precise. Once Manson had heard the "Sexy Sadie" song on the Beatles' album, The White Album, this furthered his belief that the Beatles were speaking to him through their music, since he had named Susan 'Sadie' a year before the song had come out.
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:06 am

    TravM wrote:In case you guys are wondering, "Sadie" is the nickname Manson gave to follower Susan Atkins. Sadie Mae Glutz was the name, to be precise. Once Manson had heard the "Sexy Sadie" song on the Beatles' album, The White Album, this furthered his belief that the Beatles were speaking to him through their music, since he had named Susan 'Sadie' a year before the song had come out.

    Yeah he had a meaning for quite a few Beatles songs. One, of course, was Helter Skelter, where lyrics where said to speak about the Family's escape from Death Valley after Helter Skelter. Another famous one was Piggies, which of course was used in blood on the walls of the victims. The lyric "What they need's a damned good whacking" Manson referred to as black people taking over "the piggies", or the establishment.


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:10 am

    Yes. I know too much about the subject lol. Since Leslie Van Houten was denied parole, I think it's good to mention that she was released in 1977 during a re-trial for her case. Her lawyer, Ronald Hughes, had disappeared during the original trial. His body was later found between a bolder, I believe. It's rumored that this murder was because of the Manson family, but this has never been proven. Once she lost the trial again in 1977, she was sent to jail again where she is at this moment.
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:17 am

    TravM wrote:Yes. I know too much about the subject lol. Since Leslie Van Houten was denied parole, I think it's good to mention that she was released in 1977 during a re-trial for her case. Her lawyer, Ronald Hughes, had disappeared during the original trial. His body was later found between a bolder, I believe. It's rumored that this murder was because of the Manson family, but this has never been proven. Once she lost the trial again in 1977, she was sent to jail again where she is at this moment.

    Van Houten's personality has really seemed to change. But seemed is the key word. She's apologized multiple times for her actions and has said she's trying to convince other young women she sees in prison to not be foolish, if you will, while they still have a chance. She's tried to convince everyone she isn't a threat to society, but she's yet again been turned down.


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    CantBeTamed
    Fledged
    Fledged

    Male Posts : 89
    Join date : 2010-07-12
    Age : 26
    Location : My World

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by CantBeTamed on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:32 am

    Manson Is A Nut Job But Very Interesting I Love True Crime Stuff (my gma got me fascinated with it) "The Family" Thought Of Him As God He Didnt Have To Do Anything He Wanted Someone Dead They Would Do It If He Said So And Sharon Tate Was Amazing I Love Her Its A Shame At Least They Are Getting What They Deserve For Doing This Terrible Crime Oh And Susan Atkins The Girl Who Killed Sharon She Died Last Year
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:33 am

    Out of all of them, Leslie Van Houten has seemed to be the one who has shown the most regret and remorse. Unlike the others, she had a semi-normal childhood. She was a happy teenager on the cheer leading squad before she met Manson. But then again, Sadie Atkins, Tex Watson, and Patricia "Katie" Krenwinkel have also expressed remorse so it's hard to say who will get released.

    Vincent Bugliosi, who said that Atkins could be released with no problems before she died in September 09, has said that Van Houten is probably the most eligible person from the Manson family to be released. Either way, I'm not sure. I guess I wouldn't support it, but I wouldn't be against it. I would, however, be against Manson's release.

    Just because she's said that she's changed, doesn't mean anything really. Even if she has, I doubt she'll be released.








    She's in her early 60s, so she's not a huge threat to society.
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:03 am

    TravM wrote:Vincent Bugliosi, who said that Atkins could be released with no problems before she died in September 09, has said that Van Houten is probably the most eligible person from the Manson family to be released. Either way, I'm not sure. I guess I wouldn't support it, but I wouldn't be against it. I would, however, be against Manson's release.

    Van Houten would definantly be the best one to have let go. At least, she seems to be the smaller threat. Like you said she's shown extreme remorse and sorrow for what happened. As for Manson's release, that's never going to happen. He's admitted he has no remorse and quite frankly releasing him would be flat out stupid.

    However I am thinking about mailing him, I'd love to have the oppertunity to hear back (althogh it's unlikely).


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com
    avatar
    TravM
    Famous
    Famous

    Male Posts : 635
    Join date : 2010-06-07
    Age : 21
    Location : Florida

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by TravM on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:04 am

    I think I recall hearing an interview where he said that he doesn't respond to mail. You could give it a try though.
    avatar
    Hollywood
    Global Moderator
    Global Moderator

    Male Posts : 435
    Join date : 2010-06-06
    Age : 22
    Location : South Carolina

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Hollywood on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:14 am

    Just wanted to share a quick quote of Manson's, one of my favorites from him:

    Charles Manson wrote:If I wanted a bucket of shit, they'd tell me no. And then they'd pass a rule, "no buckets of shit."


    _________________________________________________

    Feel free to contact me with any issues, or if you just need someone to talk to. I'm always here for you.
    E-mail questions or concerns to Tyler@teen2teenforums.com

    Sponsored content

    Re: Helter Skelter

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:38 am